Underaged Sex Workers

[sgjoey]

From the Breaking News section of The Straits Times Online, 3rd Jan, 2012:

A man who paid $100 for sex with an underage Vietnamese prostitute was jailed for nine months on Tuesday.

Kum Chin Tiong, 57, then a land and estate executive with the Singapore Land Authority, pleaded guilty to having commercial sex with the 16-year-old sex worker at Meng Yew Hotel in Geylang in July 2011.

A district court head that Kum was at a pub in Joo Chiat Road in mid-July when the Vietnamese girl approached him. She told him she was 20 years old but he disbelieved her as she looked younger than that. She also refused to let him see her passport.

Despite that, he asked her for sexual services. The girl, who is now 17, quoted $100 for 'short-time' sex. They exchanged contact numbers.

In end-July, she called him on the phone. Subsequently, he met her at her lodging house, and they took a cab to the hotel where he paid her $100 for her services.

Kum, who has two children and whose divorce is pending, could have been jailed for up to seven years and/or fined for commercial sex with a person below 18 years old.

Does anyone else besides me see an unfairness in this and similar cases?

There is something radically wrong when the age of consent for sex is 16 but it is an offence to have paid sex with someone below 18.

Also, how is someone supposed to tell if a sex worker is below 18? Sometimes it is obvious; but often it is not.

Rather than a relatively long custodial sentence, a fine would have been more appropriate.

[cuppam1982]

this is where female charter come into play and protection for minor...

this is something u need to take note.. it not fair.. but wat can we do?

[goodpartner]

It's the LAW lah, where got fair or unfair one? Someone up there decided to raise it to 18, then it's 18 lor. What can we do? Be reminded that this Sinkie law applies to you as long as you're a Sinkie; it doesn't matter WHERE ON EARTH you fucked an under-age girl. That's why those who had under-aged sex with pros in Batam also fell under the mercy of this law. So beware even if you go for overseas sex trips!

Check this out:
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw05/051004af.htm

I think the law was passed sometime after Oct 2005 only... If I am not wrong, there used to be 16yo and 17yo WL in the GL legal houses BEFORE this date.... then after that they were sent back. Any laujio can verify?

[sgjoey]

Originally Posted by goodpartner

It's the LAW lah, where got fair or unfair one? Someone up there decided to raise it to 18, then it's 18 lor. What can we do? ...

Laws are made by men. No man is perfect. Therefore our laws are not perfect too. Many laws are good. But some laws are inherently unjust. Some laws are arguably unfair. That is why laws are sometimes changed or even expunged.

When citizens feel that a law is unfair, they should speak up about it. If the feeling of unfairness is widespread enough, it may be sufficient to overturn the law.

[goodpartner]

Originally Posted by sgjoey

When citizens feel that a law is unfair, they should speak up about it. If the feeling of unfairness is widespread enough, it may be sufficient to overturn the law.

Okie then it's an issue with the lack of leadership to run a petition? Hmm... who will take the lead?

[sgjoey]

Originally Posted by goodpartner

Okie then it's an issue with the lack of leadership to run a petition? Hmm... who will take the lead?

Talk of a petition is premature. I am just trying to gauge the feelings of people over here. I feel this particular law is unfair. Do many people feel the same way -- not just within this forum but outside it too? If the level of perception that the law is unfair is indeed significant, then the next step could be considered. It need not be a petition -- there are many possible measures that could be explored. But I would prefer to cross the bridge only when it needs to be crossed.

[asdfghjkl]

dun bonk if passport is not available to be checked, which most FL will not bring along.

[loneyheart]

Laws in SG .... fair or unfair ????? ...not even lives in SG
If u r poor or ave person just follow n accept it
If u r rich n famous u can mayb play it like a game if u can get a good lawer
Just like TCS Quan Yi Fong

[owl888]

So lesson learnt, always go to hotels that check WL passport. At least, u can cfm her age. If go those unlicensed ST houses, do take care!

[Reoxy]

Any law that protects teenage women from potential sexual predators are fair and just.

There are plenty of women above 21 or even above 18 for men to engage in commercial sex with. I do not see a compelling reason otherwise.

Having sex with anyone below 18 when you are probably twice their age or more is just a step away from becoming a pedophile.

[goodpartner]

Originally Posted by sgjoey

I am just trying to gauge the feelings of people over here. I feel this particular law is unfair. Do many people feel the same way -- not just within this forum but outside it too?

Okie, first of all...are you referring to the "unfairness" of guys being somehow misled by the WL into thinking she is 18yo & above, OR the "unfairness" of the law to raise the legal age from 16 to 18?

I got the impression you're referring to the latter, but let's clarify before casting votes

Imho, EVERYONE will probably vote for it being unfair in the formal case where the WL cheated on her age resulting in guy getting jailed - so there's no need for any poll.

However, given the temptation then, chances are that the guy will "act blur" even given strong suspicion as in the news; the guy think that he can get away by acting blur and push the blame on the WL for cheating him if ever got caught... so I don't think he can claim "unfair" in this case.

I think there's a judgement where it's something like "if you know it's wrong and did not do anything to prevent it, then it's enough justification put you at fault" or "if you're experiencd enough or in a position to tell that it's wrong, but choose to ignore it, then you're at fault too".

[callmebad]

when comes to matter of law, right or wrong, we have not much say.
government will also seldom bother to explain this to us
but just wonder, how did police know he fucked this Vietnamese chicken?
at the moment, they still haven't extended the punishment to those guys who go overseas to fuck under-age girls like what is been practiced in some ang moh countries
if they do that,more Singapore guys will go to prison

[LovePotion]

I think they should also punish those girls who are underage that offer service.

Next time, never bring them to cheap hotel at geylang. This is one thing i learn from this thread.

If i were that guy, i will felt despair and regret

[sgjoey]

Originally Posted by callmebad

when comes to matter of law, right or wrong, we have not much say.
government will also seldom bother to explain this to us
...

The government will be very happy if everyone thinks this way. But this is not true, of course. If enough people are outraged by an issue, the government will feel the pressure to do something about it. Take the flood and the MRT breakdowns for instance.

But when the government feels that the level of outrage is not likely to be high, they may just ignore the negative sentiment. The mandatory death penalty is an example of such an issue.

[sgjoey]

Originally Posted by goodpartner

Okie, first of all...are you referring to the "unfairness" of guys being somehow misled by the WL into thinking she is 18yo & above, OR the "unfairness" of the law to raise the legal age from 16 to 18?

I got the impression you're referring to the latter, but let's clarify before casting votes

Imho, EVERYONE will probably vote for it being unfair in the formal case where the WL cheated on her age resulting in guy getting jailed - so there's no need for any poll.

However, given the temptation then, chances are that the guy will "act blur" even given strong suspicion as in the news; the guy think that he can get away by acting blur and push the blame on the WL for cheating him if ever got caught... so I don't think he can claim "unfair" in this case.

I think there's a judgement where it's something like "if you know it's wrong and did not do anything to prevent it, then it's enough justification put you at fault" or "if you're experiencd enough or in a position to tell that it's wrong, but choose to ignore it, then you're at fault too".

I think the law is unfair in the first instance, and inconsistent in the second. But I do acknowledge that many countries have such anomalous laws in which the age of consent is lower than that for paid sex being illegal. The intent is probably to prevent young people from becoming sex workers. But it still seems logically contradictory that young people (above 16) are permitted to have sex but young people (below 18) are not permitted to have sex if money is involved.

For this particular case, no force or violence was used. The girl solicited and did not reveal her age. I just feel that the 9 months jail sentence is manifestly excessive.